A New Blue Zone and Living to 100 (and a Bittersweet Goodbye)

Kevin: Hey, Michelle, how are you doing?

Michelle: I'm okay, Kev. I'm getting over the shingles, which really sucked.

Kevin: Oh, yeah, I've known people who have had shingles, and that's pretty nasty.

Michelle: I've known it too, and I've heard that it's very painful, but I was not prepared for exactly how painful it is. It's kind of like I described to other women, it's not the same as back labour, but if it was the same, it's pretty bad, like back labour is, like when you're giving birth. It's kind of like having back labour that doesn't go away for weeks.

Kevin: I can't relate, but it sounds horrible, so we'll go with that.

Michelle: Yeah, it's pretty awful, and you don't get a baby at the end.

Kevin: Yeah, there's nothing positive to, although maybe that's not a bad thing, because, you know, babies can be a lot of work after, you know, back labour.

Michelle: Expensive little tax deductions.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, I'm feeling kind of tired today.

Michelle: Are you? Yeah. You sound like, I can hear it in your voice, do you have a cold coming on?

Kevin: Well, no, I went to a really, it was a really good concert, but I went to a concert last night.

Michelle: Nice.

Kevin: And you know that you're getting old. When you go to a concert, I didn't drink a thing, I just stayed up past my regular bedtime, and now me just staying out late feels the same this morning as when I used to be younger and I'd go out and have a whole bunch of beers.

Michelle: Oh my gosh, so you've got a sleep deprivation hangover.

Kevin: Exactly, exactly, and I don't like it because it's making me realize how old I am. I deliberately didn't drink anything, thinking, oh, so I'll be fine tomorrow, no problem. And then, like, this morning showed up and it was horrible. Okay, so enough of our complaints about being tired and in pain and all that, let's get on to something more positive about growing old. How about that?

Michelle: Absolutely, absolutely. Well, I saw some really exciting news that I thought was worth talking about, and it harkens back to a previous episode that we did. I think we talked about Blue Zones, but I think before that I even did one on the Alexander Leaf that preceded it, the original National Geographic.

Kevin: Yeah, we've done a few episodes on Blue Zones. I'll put links to them in the show notes if anyone's interested in going back and listening.

Michelle: Yeah, so the folks at National Geographic have discovered a new Blue Zone.

Kevin: Oh, cool, because I know that a lot of existing Blue Zones are kind of in decline, some of them, so it's nice to know that there's new ones emerging.

Michelle: Some of them are as Western-style diets and more ultra-processed food makes it into their culture, then it is starting to decline with the next generation, but this is a brand new Blue Zone just discovered, and that has not been a problem there so far because they're fairly remote. It is on the island of Sardinia, which is part of Italy. One of the existing Blue Zones were a group of villages in Sardinia, but this is in a completely different part of the island, very remote. It's more northwest, I believe.

Kevin: Okay, so Sardinia has two Blue Zones. That's very promising.

Michelle: One of the markers that made the original Sardinian Blue Zone interesting is that globally women have a longer life expectancy than men, except in Sardinia where the men typically lived longer than the women, even the centenarians, and that was kind of interesting about them. However, this new Sardinian Blue Zone, they think may be perhaps the longest-living women on the planet.

Kevin: Oh, wow. So not only are the women overtaking the men in Sardinia, but they're overtaking the world in terms of longevity.

Michelle: So here's kind of what they looked at. The study was published in Frontiers in Aging, and of course it was done by National Geographic, and they did the analysis of demographic records of this village, Boletana, a 2,300-resident village right in the center of the island of Sardinia, and they found that local women are almost three times as likely to become a centenarian as women in the United States. So they examined the demographic records of these 2,300 villagers, and they found a pattern of longevity among older adults, and particularly the women, and they documented at least 38 centenarians among a population of only about 3,000 people born in Boletana between 1900 and 1925. They say that nearly 14% of the female residents who reach age 70 will live to 100, compared to only about 3.5% of women in the rest of Italy and 3.6% in the United States. So that's a significantly larger percentage.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: In this village, they can definitively evaluate the ages at birth and death, which has been a criticism of the prior Alexander Leaf research, and some people have poked at the other Blue Zones data as well, saying, well, are those records really accurate? But they actually have all of the, in one of the articles that I read about this study, they actually had photographs of the documentation. The documentation exists, and it's legit.

Kevin: All right. Thumbs up for Sardinian public administration.

Michelle: Yeah, right.

Kevin: And public records. Good job, guys. Good job.

Michelle: But what I find this female piece so interesting, here's a quote from one of the articles. Females almost always live longer than males anywhere in the world, but Sardinia, in Sardinia, that wasn't the case. It's one of the things that make it so unusual. We think that this is the longest-lived female population in the world, or close to it. So, after reaching age 70, women in Boletana may live another 21 years. How awesome would that be? To reach your 70th birthday and know that you still got two decades left?

Kevin: Yeah, exactly.

Michelle: There's no guarantee, but if you're one of the 13, whatever percent, then you're lucky. Almost 14%.

Kevin: What strikes me in this, what makes me curious is, do they have any idea why the rest of Sardinia is reversed in terms of men living longer than women? Do they have any theories on that? That's going against the global norm, certainly. I'm just curious about that. Did you read anything about that?

Michelle: They don't have an answer for that. What I do know is that they follow the similar dietary and lifestyle patterns that we see in the other blue zones. It's almost mirroring and emphasizing the fact that they're so remote and they're in this mountainous area, little village, and it's full of steep, winding streets and hills, and they have to walk those daily to get around and do their daily things. So, there's built-in natural movement. Right. The fact that they also have very strong social anchors and tight social integration. Isolation among anyone in that village is rare. The families live very close to each other and they're very closely knit with their neighbors and they have very integrated relationships with their elders.

Kevin: Well, they would rely on each other in any tight-knit community that's isolated like that. They rely on each other very, very closely.

Michelle: Yes. And their elders are revered in the community, similar to some of our Alokan in aging here in this culture. They share domestic stress, was something that they put in the Nat Geo study. So, Dan Buechner, who is the longevity expert that made all of this work initially famous, I don't think he's the guy involved in studying anymore, but he's still very highly involved, I suspect, with Bluzon's work. He highlighted a unique cultural dynamic because the village historically relied on a split economy, half pastoral, half agricultural. Men were home more often. So, I wonder if that has something to do with it. I don't know.

Kevin: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The men are at home, safe at home, being protected while the women are out doing the work, and they're the ones falling into crevices and getting attacked by mountain lions or whatever. Whatever happens in Sardinia, eaten by man-eating snakes, I don't know.

Michelle: I wonder, anyway, if that plays a part.

Kevin: Maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michelle: Yeah, I don't know. This allowed them to share domestic activities and domestic burdens. Right. So, between the men and the women, whereas the women would have taken all of that on in the other areas, right? And that would help lower the stress load on their wives. So, like stress, I mean, they say it's a silent killer, right? Of course. So, I kind of took what they had about the original Sardinian Blue Zone and the new Blue Zone and kind of compared what was different between them and what was the same. So, the primary longevity driver in the original Sardinian Blue Zone was driven heavily by men, famous for having an almost one-to-one ratio of male-to-female centenarians. The new Boletana region or village, driven overwhelmingly by women, and the women have a massive statistical advantage in late-life survival. The survival probability age 70 to 100 in the original Blue Zone was balanced tightly between the sexes with men living exceptionally long compared to global standards. And the new, as we said, 13.83% for women versus 4.92% for men.

Kevin: It's a good place to be a woman.

Michelle: Yeah, the women reached age, and this isn't to 100, this is women and men reaching it to age 70, nearly three times more, are three times more likely to hit 100 than a man.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: Right? And so, they're kind of saying, if you make it to 70, you're good.

Kevin: Exactly, if you made it this far, your future's pretty rosy, if you're a woman.

Michelle: And you could get lucky if you're a guy.

Kevin: And maybe, yeah, don't buy any lottery tickets if you're a guy.

Michelle: And in the original Blue Zone, the traditional occupations in Sardinia were highly pastoral, historically dominated by shepherds who walked up to eight miles a day.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: Versus in Boletana, a mixed economy split between pastoral shepherding and crop farming or agricultural.

Kevin: Okay.

Michelle: Okay, so let's talk about the traditional diet in Boletana, this new Blue Zone. Not surprisingly, their diet is predominantly plant-based. Mm-hmm. Their diet consists mostly of beans, pasta, potatoes, fresh-grown produce from their own gardens. They have meat rarely, only about five times a month, according to their study.

Kevin: Okay.

Michelle: So, it was rarely consumed as special occasions. They did use local dairy and fats. So, they used olive oils pressed from their local groves, and they consumed cheese made from the sheep that they raise. For most of their lives, residents do not import or eat any American-style junk food, fast food. Although, modern availability has shifted slightly since imports opened up around 2005. But this particular village doesn't seem to be particularly interested in it. But we'll see with the next generation, right?

Kevin: Exactly. Exactly.

Michelle: Yeah, so that is a very close mirror to the other Blue Zones. So, it was summed up by another sort of scientist that their diet is about 90% plant-based, which is similar to the other Blue Zones. And the fact that there are no fast food restaurants nearby, they grow most of their own food, and they're in multi-generational households. And family, social connections are very critical contributors to their longevity. But the study also does acknowledge there very well could be genetic factors related to their longevity as well.

Kevin: Right. Because they are concentrated in one village, so there's a lot of families there, yeah.

Michelle: So, it's a perfect storm. A perfect storm. Yeah, so if anybody wants to look this up, we'll put a link in the show notes. The study's found in Frontiers on Aging, and then there are many, many articles written about it. Yeah, National Geographic has a great article on it. You need a subscription to read that one. But there's many others as well. So, yeah, long live the women!

Kevin: Well, it's interesting. As I mentioned earlier, it's nice to see that there are some emerging Blue Zones, because you have mentioned in the past that some Blue Zones are falling behind or being questioned or whatever. So, it's nice to see that there are still some new ones that are coming up that hopefully we can learn more things about, and we'll grab more attention to living that pastoral life and walking eight miles a day tending your sheep and doing all that backbreaking work.

Michelle: You know, I met a plant-based family physician through the Canadian plant-based healthcare professionals group, and I met her in person at the conference this past year. And I believe that she is working on – I don't know who she's working with, probably going to have to get her on the pod – to make a Blue Zone in Northern Ontario.

Kevin: Oh, cool.

Michelle: Yeah, she's apparently working towards that. But is that the type of thing?

Kevin: Is a Blue Zone something you can make? Isn't it something that kind of has to – you have to have at least the foundations for it already?

Michelle: Well, Kevin, I'm glad you asked that question.

Kevin: Oh, it's like you planted it, but you didn't. Again, you taught me well.

Michelle: Be curious. Always be curious.

Kevin: Always be curious.

Michelle: There is a whole segment of Blue Zones started by Dan Buechner about what do we learn from this that we can actually apply today? And I don't know if the grant funding is still going on, but you used to be able to get a grant. You'd have to apply for it, of course, and meet a bunch of criteria to do a Blue Zone project in your community. And these projects have been done all over the United States and different parts of the world. But it's complicated because in order for it to work, you have to have – the entire community has to be committed to it. So your school system has to be on board. Your hospital system has to be on board. Your local government has to be on board.

Kevin: Your local McDonald's has to be on board.

Michelle: So what they do is they literally make infrastructure changes to the community so that it's more of a walk-to environment. And grocery stores have to change the way that they merchandise so that the junk food isn't facing out the first thing. It has to be the healthier stuff, has to be the most available and easy to reach for. And things like that in the hospitals have to change what they're serving. And schools, yeah. So there is a whole roadmap for creating a Blue Zone community. And it's pretty cool. And so I suspect, without having had a deep conversation with this person yet, I suspect it's that type of project that she's undertaking. In fact, you may remember quite some time ago, just before COVID, I had seen a newspaper article that in Airdrie, Alberta, was doing one of these Blue Zone projects.

Kevin: Oh yeah, I remember you mentioning that. That's right.

Michelle: Yeah. So I don't know. And it was Northern Alberta. So I don't know whether that ever happens or not.

Kevin: Future podcast episode.

Michelle: Yeah.

Kevin: A follow-up on that to see what that... That's what I think is interesting. It's great to study the Blue Zones and blah, blah, blah, and to understand, but to then actually be able to apply those learnings to a real community, that's fascinating. If that can work. It'd be a huge challenge though.

Michelle: And they've seen it work dozens of times in other communities that have done it. In fact, one of the places that Rob and I love to vacation is in Big Island, Hawaii. And there's this one section of Big Island, Hawaii that all of the stores have a sign saying, this is a Blue Zone community. Oh, okay. Interesting. So, I mean, easier to do because infrastructure is actually being built for the first time in these areas of Big Island. So it's not like you have to make a big change. But still, it's very cool. And I think that's the point, right? So what, that these people live to be over 100? That's an interesting anecdote. But what does that mean? How can we apply that? And that's kind of my whole philosophy. Forget all these people's diet or conversations on social media and who thinks what and what influencer thinks is the healthiest thing to do. Who are the longest living people on the planet? And what are they doing? Maybe those are the influencers we should be paying attention to.

Kevin: Exactly. And again, just to reinforce also, it's not just the longest living, but the longest living with a good quality of life. The people, the 99-year-olds who are still going out to like walk eight miles to tend their sheep or whatever and are still mentally active. Yeah.

Michelle: And there is no type two diabetes and there is no obesity and there is no cardiovascular disease issues like all of the Western illnesses. They're not even prevalent in these communities.

Kevin: Exactly. Very interesting. Very interesting. Well, thank you for this update.

Michelle: Yeah. Super, super cool stuff. You're welcome, Kevin. So I believe that you have something that you want to share with our listeners.

Kevin: Well, yes. Um, regrettably, I will be stepping away from the podcast.

Michelle: Well, that's that's for real. I'm going to miss you.

Kevin: I'm going to miss doing it. Unfortunately, life is busy and I have to make certain priorities. And I have been on this journey with you, Michelle, for more than 75 episodes. And it's been I've learned so much.

Michelle: Well, the whole thing was your idea.

Kevin: But regrettably, the technical side of a podcast is a lot of work running the website, editing these, everything to do uploading.

Michelle: You're very good at it. We're all very grateful.

Kevin: It's just taking a little bit too much out from.

Michelle: Because you're a super successful voiceover actor now and you're way too busy.

Kevin: It's slightly distracting from, you know, the little things like me earning money. So I do have to prioritize, but I will still be a listener. And who knows, maybe if, you know, Michelle doesn't hate me, maybe she can invite me back to be a special guest every once in a while. And I understand that you also have a little bit of news or a little bit of an update. Again, not not the happiest news.

Michelle: I'm just going to have a little bit of a pause because I have to have a dental surgery. So we're going to we're going to play a hit, I guess, most listened to.

Kevin: But I'll be back.

Michelle: I just have to figure all this out.

Kevin: Exactly. And and mouth surgery, especially in a podcast. You need your mouth to heal before you can go figure, right? Well, then, Michelle, it has been a joy. That sounds so final. And I'm sure I will. I hope I'll be back for, you know, the occasional drop in or something. The occasional dad joke, because no one's allowed to do dad jokes. I'm the only dad joke. You can't. No, no, no, no, no. I have copyrighted it and trademark.

Michelle: Trademark.

Kevin: Yes. But I have.

Michelle: Well, do you have one today?

Kevin: I have two to go out with, you know, go out with a bang, they say. And they are really, really bad.

Michelle: So, no.

Kevin: Are you ready? Yes. What did the banana say to the monkey?

Michelle: I love it when the question just makes me laugh.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. I don't even need the punchline. Like, I've got enough laughs from you as it is.

Michelle: What did the banana say to the monkey? Nothing.

Kevin: Bananas can't talk.

Michelle: Oh, gosh.

Kevin: And here as a final dad joke, it's very meta. When does a joke become a dad joke?

Michelle: When Kevin says it? I don't know.

Kevin: When the punchline is apparent.

Michelle: Oh, no. That's bad.

Kevin: So, there we go. We're ending on a real, real groaner. Is that really the last impression you wanted to leave? Yes, because, you know, that is what I'm known for. I think more than anything in this podcast, I am known for the dad jokes.

Michelle: So, I need something memorable.

Kevin: So, Michelle, my very, very best of luck to you in carrying this forward. Of course, I will be listening and providing you comments and notes and feedback.

Michelle: And listener questions.

Kevin: Tons of listener questions. Until then, for potentially the final time, eat your greens. And always be real. Okay. I love you all. Goodbye, Noobosphere. Until next time. This has been Nutrition for Noobs. We hope you're a bit more enlightened about how your fantastic and complicated body works with the food you put into it. If you haven't already, you can subscribe to the podcast on whatever your favorite platform might be. Also, please consider leaving a review or telling your friends. That's the best way to spread the word. We'll see you next time with another interesting topic. The views and opinions expressed on Nutrition for Noobs are those of the hosts. It is not intended to be a substitute for medical, nutritional, or health advice. Listeners should seek a personal consultation with a qualified practitioner if they have any concerns or before commencing any actions mentioned in the podcast.

Michelle: Oh, I need a cane. We need a cane to get you off.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. I don't want to. I just want to keep talking. I'll just stretch this out. I can just add lib and then you can just add little bits of it.

Michelle: Are you kidding me? You're doing a happy dance right now.

Kevin: No, it's a sad dance.